Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
Moderator: FSAirlines Staff
Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
I think the solution on "off day add ons" is to simply make a 2nd schedule and assign it in addition to the original schedule assigned instead of confusing the system with odd ball days within one schedule.
EDIT: nope that won't work, can only have 1 schedule per pilot. I will try a rebuild and put the WE only flights first followed by the TH-SU flights
EDIT II: BINGO! If one is flying only certain days in a schedule, one has to set them up left to right in the que as the system will not read backwards. aka, once I put the Wednesday only flights first in the que, the pilot is now set up to go to IND from DTW tomorrow morning. This pilot was belly aching about flight time (happiness going down) so I wanted to add a few flights on one of his off days to keep him happier. Just adding another day to his other flights was putting him over 100 hours in 28 days so I needed a couple of shorter legs.
EDIT: nope that won't work, can only have 1 schedule per pilot. I will try a rebuild and put the WE only flights first followed by the TH-SU flights
EDIT II: BINGO! If one is flying only certain days in a schedule, one has to set them up left to right in the que as the system will not read backwards. aka, once I put the Wednesday only flights first in the que, the pilot is now set up to go to IND from DTW tomorrow morning. This pilot was belly aching about flight time (happiness going down) so I wanted to add a few flights on one of his off days to keep him happier. Just adding another day to his other flights was putting him over 100 hours in 28 days so I needed a couple of shorter legs.
Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with this new idea. The incorporation of automated pilots could lead to a mix of human and fictional flights, which, in my opinion, detracts from the realism of a simulation environment. This feels more like an arcade game feature than something suitable for a true simulator.
The impact on statistics is also concerning. Airlines with real pilots who have accumulated thousands of hours through effort and dedication will see their achievements overshadowed by airlines using automated pilots without any real commitment. This seriously affects the credibility of stats like flights, hours, passengers, miles, and finances, making them lose their real-world value.
Is this really the direction we want to take? Moving closer to realistic simulation or encouraging automation? What’s the motivation in seeing a plane “flying itself” on the map?
It’s disappointing to hear this news, as I believe it takes FSAirlines further from its purpose of reflecting realistic aviation simulation.
The impact on statistics is also concerning. Airlines with real pilots who have accumulated thousands of hours through effort and dedication will see their achievements overshadowed by airlines using automated pilots without any real commitment. This seriously affects the credibility of stats like flights, hours, passengers, miles, and finances, making them lose their real-world value.
Is this really the direction we want to take? Moving closer to realistic simulation or encouraging automation? What’s the motivation in seeing a plane “flying itself” on the map?
It’s disappointing to hear this news, as I believe it takes FSAirlines further from its purpose of reflecting realistic aviation simulation.
- joefremont
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Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
Glad you figured out a solution Sam. In my experiments I found that I just need to set days of week for the first leg in the schedule, then the rest of it works itself out. Even when they are two day routes, because the first route of the next day is earlier than the last flight of the previous day the system knows to take a break.
if its any consolidation, flights by automated pilots are not included in the statistics, nor should it be included in airline reputation, and since maximum revenue multiplier for bot pilots is 10x there financial contribution is much lower. Much of the reason for this is so many pilots have trouble attracting human pilots that you don't really get the experience of managing an airline.280782 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 11:29 am I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with this new idea. The incorporation of automated pilots could lead to a mix of human and fictional flights, which, in my opinion, detracts from the realism of a simulation environment. This feels more like an arcade game feature than something suitable for a true simulator.
The impact on statistics is also concerning. Airlines with real pilots who have accumulated thousands of hours through effort and dedication will see their achievements overshadowed by airlines using automated pilots without any real commitment. This seriously affects the credibility of stats like flights, hours, passengers, miles, and finances, making them lose their real-world value.
Is this really the direction we want to take? Moving closer to realistic simulation or encouraging automation? What’s the motivation in seeing a plane “flying itself” on the map?
It’s disappointing to hear this news, as I believe it takes FSAirlines further from its purpose of reflecting realistic aviation simulation.
I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands.
Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
A quick personal opinion and I will not comment on the subject again:
The "statistics" posted are NOT a leaderboard for people to try to top as you are comparing apples to oranges to avacado's when "human airlines" can fly at any speed from 1x to 16x. A "human airline" with pilots all flying at max compression time of 16x have overinflated hours and make far more money per real day (especially at high multiplier rates) than is actually possible with any automated pilot.
Statistics are only relevant to the actual virtual airline involved.
As a beta tester, I find the automated pilots feature brings in a whole new angle to "airline management" and requires a lot of attention to detail and mathematics. People are never forced to use any feature offered which includes advanced finances, package hauling and soon to be released automated pilots. One can choose the level of complexity that suits their needs.
But to say this feature will compromise the stat list is faulty because not all airlines are playing on the same field anyway, so it was already a "compromised list" to begin with. OK I'm done.
Happy Flying Everyone!
The "statistics" posted are NOT a leaderboard for people to try to top as you are comparing apples to oranges to avacado's when "human airlines" can fly at any speed from 1x to 16x. A "human airline" with pilots all flying at max compression time of 16x have overinflated hours and make far more money per real day (especially at high multiplier rates) than is actually possible with any automated pilot.
Statistics are only relevant to the actual virtual airline involved.
As a beta tester, I find the automated pilots feature brings in a whole new angle to "airline management" and requires a lot of attention to detail and mathematics. People are never forced to use any feature offered which includes advanced finances, package hauling and soon to be released automated pilots. One can choose the level of complexity that suits their needs.
But to say this feature will compromise the stat list is faulty because not all airlines are playing on the same field anyway, so it was already a "compromised list" to begin with. OK I'm done.
Happy Flying Everyone!
Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
I just expressed my opinion from a different point of view, I did not expect that it could be taken badly, I think we are adults, sorry if it has bothered.
Statistics are not to win or lose, they are to compare and measure, the greatest value of the airlines in FSAirlines are the data that complete it, more specifically, the flight reports.
For me, I repeat, for me, has no value a fictitious flight report that has not made a human, regardless of the simulation speed, that seeing the TOP 1 Global Aero airline, their last reports are at 1x, few people will fly at 16x, although as you say, it is comparing apples with oranges.
Seems like a heavy development and in this 6 page thread only 6 people have participated, counting Joe and myself. If you prefer that I only participate in threads where I agree, just say so.
We must accept that airlines can have different goals, in the case of your airline 95% of the pilots are “Auto Von” bots and in the case of my airline 100% are real people, it's normal that we have different opinions, it's ok! for me an airline is a group of people, a community. The bots will not keep this project alive.
I just want to show my concern for the data and the value everyone wants to give it.
Do you think it is possible to fulfill everyone's wish? I think it is possible to find a way, I can think of excluding the bots reports from the airline statistics. You will agree with me if as you say, the statistics are only relevant for each airline.
What each one wants to do with his airline is up to him, as long as he does not alter the result of the data of the rest.
Just remember that I am here because I care a lot about this project, it will always be in my interest that we succeed together.
Statistics are not to win or lose, they are to compare and measure, the greatest value of the airlines in FSAirlines are the data that complete it, more specifically, the flight reports.
For me, I repeat, for me, has no value a fictitious flight report that has not made a human, regardless of the simulation speed, that seeing the TOP 1 Global Aero airline, their last reports are at 1x, few people will fly at 16x, although as you say, it is comparing apples with oranges.
Seems like a heavy development and in this 6 page thread only 6 people have participated, counting Joe and myself. If you prefer that I only participate in threads where I agree, just say so.
We must accept that airlines can have different goals, in the case of your airline 95% of the pilots are “Auto Von” bots and in the case of my airline 100% are real people, it's normal that we have different opinions, it's ok! for me an airline is a group of people, a community. The bots will not keep this project alive.
I just want to show my concern for the data and the value everyone wants to give it.
Do you think it is possible to fulfill everyone's wish? I think it is possible to find a way, I can think of excluding the bots reports from the airline statistics. You will agree with me if as you say, the statistics are only relevant for each airline.
What each one wants to do with his airline is up to him, as long as he does not alter the result of the data of the rest.
Just remember that I am here because I care a lot about this project, it will always be in my interest that we succeed together.
Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
Wasn't taken badly, no hard feelings my friend. Totally agree everyone has the option to do what they enjoy without being bound to others' thoughts as to what's "ideal".
This is what makes FSAirlines such a unique platform: other than making sure the client logs flights properly and the airline does not run out of money, there is no "standard protocol" on what one has to do to be successful. Enjoyment of the hobby is the number one goal.
The reason my airline is full of bots is because I am beta testing the system. LOL
This is what makes FSAirlines such a unique platform: other than making sure the client logs flights properly and the airline does not run out of money, there is no "standard protocol" on what one has to do to be successful. Enjoyment of the hobby is the number one goal.
The reason my airline is full of bots is because I am beta testing the system. LOL
Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
Data point request: In the pilot profile or logbook, is there a way we can put the name of the schedule they are assigned to instead of having to look through the schedule list to find said pilot?
The pilot profile is where I would put it - schedule information is already there, next flight, etc. just not the actual name of the schedule.
The pilot profile is where I would put it - schedule information is already there, next flight, etc. just not the actual name of the schedule.
- joefremont
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Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
I had actually already done this, but the change was still siting in the beta branch, merged into www, its on the profile pageCat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 7:01 pm Data point request: In the pilot profile or logbook, is there a way we can put the name of the schedule they are assigned to instead of having to look through the schedule list to find said pilot?
The pilot profile is where I would put it - schedule information is already there, next flight, etc. just not the actual name of the schedule.
I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands.
Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
Cool beans, thanks!
Still having issues with "off day flights". Now the schedule is only doing the wednesday only flights and not the rest of them on Thurs - Sunday. hmmmmmmmm. Von Allen Park guy still Detroit Regional 2B
He flew the Wed flights and now is off for over 100 hours until next Wednesday. So I'm going to unschedule him and try something else.
Still having issues with "off day flights". Now the schedule is only doing the wednesday only flights and not the rest of them on Thurs - Sunday. hmmmmmmmm. Von Allen Park guy still Detroit Regional 2B
He flew the Wed flights and now is off for over 100 hours until next Wednesday. So I'm going to unschedule him and try something else.
- joefremont
- FSAirlines Developer
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Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
I do think we need better reporting for why a pilot does not fly, not sure if it should be a notification message or maybe just a table entry., probably bothCat wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:42 am Cool beans, thanks!
Still having issues with "off day flights". Now the schedule is only doing the wednesday only flights and not the rest of them on Thurs - Sunday. hmmmmmmmm. Von Allen Park guy still Detroit Regional 2B
He flew the Wed flights and now is off for over 100 hours until next Wednesday. So I'm going to unschedule him and try something else.
I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands.
Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
OK - here is what I have discovered trying to get an automated pilot to fly different routes on different days: That theory simply does not work due to the way the system looks at scheduled legs.
Example: I set up 4 legs for Wednesday only, 4 different legs for Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
The system starts at the top leg and when the pilot is done for the day, it will revert back to the top. The system will not "look for other flights" if there is no flight on the given day in the top leg.
This does not necessarily need fixing, one just has to recognize the limits of the system. All flights in a schedule must be on the same days. Pilots can only be assigned one schedule at any given time as well. So you cannot assign a pilot Schedule A for Wednesday and Schedule B for Th, Fr, Sat, Sun giving the pilot 2 days off in a row weekly.
Now if you want to keep an aircraft flying for max profit, you can have Pilot A fly it in the mornings on MTWT and Pilot B fly it in the afternoon evenings on MTWT, then Pilot C fly it on FSS. Each pilot would fly their own schedule as Pilot C would need more flight hours per day only flying 3 days a week.
I am finding it easier just to have some dedicated down time for both pilot and airplane so when the airplane needs a 24 hour A check, one can simply do it on the pilots' days off.
For super long flights, I have 3 767-300's that fly Detroit to Honolulu, Las Vegas to Tokyo and Las Vegas to London. I also have two cross country pilots who fly 737-800's from Las Vegas to Detroit and Las Vegas to New York. All of those are being dispatched daily with "book flight" and not on a multi leg schedule. When they hit the mark close to 100 hours, I simply don't book them until their logbook clears a bit and they get many days off in a row at home. This also kicks in the hotel expenses as designed because after such long flights with the 767's, they need at least 24 hours off to be well rested to fly back (just my opinion to keep things simple).
The math involved trying to figure out the exact routing to keep pilots up in hours without going over is quite complicated and those who do not like to crunch the numbers can always just book their pilots on a daily basis without trying to make a schedule work to perfection. The other solution is to overbook them for hours per 28 days and when they get close to 100, just remove the schedule until the hours start to go down in their logbook and then reassign the schedule again.
Either way, Automated pilots are not a maintenance free feature if one is looking for less hassle than dealing with humans.
Also, the airplanes are flying far more than they would be with humans who have real lives to attend to other than playing video games, so one has to keep a close eye on the aircraft status as well and keep them serviced. My CRJ's with all the short legs are now getting A Checks about every 30 days or so.
The Automated Pilots option is a fascinating feature if one is looking for more "management" than just flying. Be advised however that one has to have the time to burn to experiment and play with the automated pilot option, it is not something one can just plug in with a few minutes work and then leave it to make you money. It is a "hands on" management option.
Example: I set up 4 legs for Wednesday only, 4 different legs for Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
The system starts at the top leg and when the pilot is done for the day, it will revert back to the top. The system will not "look for other flights" if there is no flight on the given day in the top leg.
This does not necessarily need fixing, one just has to recognize the limits of the system. All flights in a schedule must be on the same days. Pilots can only be assigned one schedule at any given time as well. So you cannot assign a pilot Schedule A for Wednesday and Schedule B for Th, Fr, Sat, Sun giving the pilot 2 days off in a row weekly.
Now if you want to keep an aircraft flying for max profit, you can have Pilot A fly it in the mornings on MTWT and Pilot B fly it in the afternoon evenings on MTWT, then Pilot C fly it on FSS. Each pilot would fly their own schedule as Pilot C would need more flight hours per day only flying 3 days a week.
I am finding it easier just to have some dedicated down time for both pilot and airplane so when the airplane needs a 24 hour A check, one can simply do it on the pilots' days off.
For super long flights, I have 3 767-300's that fly Detroit to Honolulu, Las Vegas to Tokyo and Las Vegas to London. I also have two cross country pilots who fly 737-800's from Las Vegas to Detroit and Las Vegas to New York. All of those are being dispatched daily with "book flight" and not on a multi leg schedule. When they hit the mark close to 100 hours, I simply don't book them until their logbook clears a bit and they get many days off in a row at home. This also kicks in the hotel expenses as designed because after such long flights with the 767's, they need at least 24 hours off to be well rested to fly back (just my opinion to keep things simple).
The math involved trying to figure out the exact routing to keep pilots up in hours without going over is quite complicated and those who do not like to crunch the numbers can always just book their pilots on a daily basis without trying to make a schedule work to perfection. The other solution is to overbook them for hours per 28 days and when they get close to 100, just remove the schedule until the hours start to go down in their logbook and then reassign the schedule again.
Either way, Automated pilots are not a maintenance free feature if one is looking for less hassle than dealing with humans.
Also, the airplanes are flying far more than they would be with humans who have real lives to attend to other than playing video games, so one has to keep a close eye on the aircraft status as well and keep them serviced. My CRJ's with all the short legs are now getting A Checks about every 30 days or so.
The Automated Pilots option is a fascinating feature if one is looking for more "management" than just flying. Be advised however that one has to have the time to burn to experiment and play with the automated pilot option, it is not something one can just plug in with a few minutes work and then leave it to make you money. It is a "hands on" management option.
- joefremont
- FSAirlines Developer
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Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
Interesting comments Sam, it is true, the schedule normally starts at the first leg in the sequence and then goes to the second, third, etc,,. It its Tuesday and if the pilot is on leg 1 that is supposed to fly Wednesday but leg 4 is supposed to fly Tuesday it will not skip ahead. I think we should be able to assign a pilot to start on the later leg in the sequence and will try to do that in my next update.
I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands.
Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
The whole purpose of beta testing is to try to find any loopholes and/or glitches in the system which is why I have been trying things "outside the ordinary box" of thought.
It seems the biggest issue users will have is managing the 100 hour rule without having their pilots quit due to lack of flying time. I took away a couple of legs from each CRJ pilot and their happiness level immediately fell from 100% once their logbook cleared them to fly again as all were in the high 90's for hours in 28 days and were going to be put on auto pause anyway.
It is definitely a "trial and error" format to finding the happy zone that keeps the hours up but not over the limit.
It seems the biggest issue users will have is managing the 100 hour rule without having their pilots quit due to lack of flying time. I took away a couple of legs from each CRJ pilot and their happiness level immediately fell from 100% once their logbook cleared them to fly again as all were in the high 90's for hours in 28 days and were going to be put on auto pause anyway.
It is definitely a "trial and error" format to finding the happy zone that keeps the hours up but not over the limit.
Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
When will the pilots be released. I need somebody now ..This year or next year??
- joefremont
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Re: Automated Pilots: Limited Beta
You can have it now, I added your VA to be beta list. Be sure to post any issues you find here.
I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands.