Passenger capacity

[280782]

I would like to understand how the calculation works for a flight to be full of passengers or not.

I understand that it will depend on:
- Aircraft capacity
- Ticket price
- Passengers waiting at the airport, which I understand will depend on the popularity of the airport (if it is a big or small city).
- Number of airlines that operate that route.

It is to understand the importance of the data of passengers waiting at an airport.

[joefremont]

Let me explain! No, there is too much. Let me sum up.

its a bit of a complicated and could use a very long write up but I will as Inigo said, try to sum up.

The system starts with the population of the departure and arrival airport and tries figure out how many people would want to fly between those two point, it then adds or subtracts the number of passengers who have done that flight recently. it then compares at the price you have set for the flight, adjusted by your airlines reputation to the standard price for that flight, the lower your price the more passengers will want to fly, conversely the higher your price the fewer people will want to fly. If your adjusted price is more than 2.5 times the standard price, nobody will fly.

I have mentioned adjusted price. A simple way to think of the 'adjusted price' is multiply the standard price by your reputation as a percent and then compare it to your price. So if your reputation is is 80 and the standard price is 100, it compare 80 to your price, likewise if your reputation is 120 it compares the standard price to your price as if it was 120.

The one thing it does not do is look at the size of your aircraft. If given the two airports and your price only 100 passengers want to fly, it does not matter if your using an ERJ or a 747.

[280782]

Ok, thanks for the explanation, I understand that itsn't a simple calculation.

So the number of airlines that have that route and the price of them doesn't enter in that calculation?

For example, if the LEMD-EGLL flight I have the ticket at 200v$, but there are 40 airlines with the same route for 150v$. do you make any comparison here? I mean, the passenger capacity depends on the economic market.

Thanks in advance.

[joefremont]

No the number of other airlines that have routes there does not matter. Many airlines on the platform create routes and never use them. It does look at recent flights to try to figure out how to weigh what the possible destination are for the pool of passengers. I am not 100% happy with it. In the real world airlines publish there flights and prices and actually fly them 99.9% of the time. A potential passenger can look at that list and decide which one they want to get on. what we do is more like 'Hey a flight is leaving, do I want to get on it?" I would love to be able to have a system that managed passengers as individuals and try to decide what they might like to do, but that would be hugely complex.

[cajunjosh]

Is it possible to add a system in where passengers are treated like the package / priority package system already does? Individual or groups of passengers all wanting to go to specific airports that could be accessed in a list similar to how we already hunt for priority packages?

[joefremont]

Many things are possible if your willing to throw enough time and resources at it.

First issue I see is that passengers have free will. With packages you chose them, with passengers they decide if they want to get on your aircraft or not. the complexity of modeling does this passenger want to get onto your aircraft has a lot of factors, price, airline reputation, what luxury level do they want, how close do you get them to their destination, etc.

Next is just the volume of them required. Right now with packages we have different sizes, much of the reason for that is decreasing the load requirements on the system. It takes a lot less resources to handle one 2000kg package compare to 50 x 40kg packages.

[cajunjosh]

Many things are possible if your willing to throw enough time and resources at it.

First issue I see is that passengers have free will. With packages you chose them, with passengers they decide if they want to get on your aircraft or not. the complexity of modeling does this passenger want to get onto your aircraft has a lot of factors, price, airline reputation, what luxury level do they want, how close do you get them to their destination, etc.

Next is just the volume of them required. Right now with packages we have different sizes, much of the reason for that is decreasing the load requirements on the system. It takes a lot less resources to handle one 2000kg package compare to 50 x 40kg packages.

I was thinking that you would still have the "free will" pax willing to head in a general direction as it is currently. This obviously allows users who want the most freedom to go wherever they want and make a profit along the way. A second group of hybrid passengers that have a specific destination in mind and might be willing to pay slightly more per class of ticket than a general direction pax. Something to the effect of:

Passengers Departing KIAH

_ 20 First Class Passengers - KDFW
_ 8 First Class Passengers - KDFW
_ 15 First Class Passengers - KORD
_ 4 First Class Passengers - KMCO
_ 40 Business Class Passengers - KMIA
_ 27 Business Class Passengers - KMCO
_ 118 Economy Passengers - KJFK

And you could basically load up your plane to capacity depending on your destination and the number of these "specific destination" passengers. Perhaps these passengers could pay a slightly higher rate than a normal passenger because they have a specific destination in mind.

It sounds like the limiting factor would be system resources, just seems like a neat idea for those who want FSA to be more of a tasking agent.

[fackprod]

Is this maybe where charter flights sit? In the past I have created charter flights for big spectator events like Olympics / Formula 1 with slightly higher ticket prices. Pilots could depart from anywhere they wished (aircraft range applies of course) which meant draw on available psngrs was spread across multiple airports, so we always had full flights. I also threw in a bonus for the lowest fps landing speed at the event airport within a 24hr period. Just saying there is already a lot of flexibility within FSA. Not sure how much more complicated we need it to be. Apologies if I am not clearly understanding the ask.
fackprod

[cajunjosh]

We already use both routes and charter routes. This is just an idea to allow FSA to be more of the deciding factor for pilots looking to have the option for more assignment driven workflow based on the background economy of FSA.

The priority package system is a great example of how the system can direct the behavior of larger aircraft trying to maximize on profits for a particular flight. Nothing about this suggestion takes away from the existing scheduled routing or charter flight operations.

[280782]

My initial question was to try to adjust the number of passengers, my flights always go to 100% occupancy and with a TOW at the limit. This is not very realistic and forces a lot the aircraft performance.

[joefremont]

My initial question was to try to adjust the number of passengers, my flights always go to 100% occupancy and with a TOW at the limit. This is not very realistic and forces a lot the aircraft performance.

Oh, I did not get that from your initial question.

There are a few places where you can put in a limit on the number of passengers or cargo on your flight. Specifically the seat configuration for the aircraft or on the flight plan/route definition for your flight.

[joefremont]

As for the ideas about passengers going to specific locations I have given some though about it, although my thoughts were going more toward charter flights, sports teams or small groups of executives going from point to point or small groups needing transport to/from the wilderness. Groups wanting private point to point flights, not something you could bundle lots of into a larger flight. But the complexities always crop up, how to realistically model them so they are fair around the world? Sports teams travels are pretty well documented in North America but the rest of the world would be a challenge, and how do you make it different enough from the package system to make it interesting.

[cajunjosh]

As for the ideas about passengers going to specific locations I have given some though about it, although my thoughts were going more toward charter flights, sports teams or small groups of executives going from point to point or small groups needing transport to/from the wilderness. Groups wanting private point to point flights, not something you could bundle lots of into a larger flight. But the complexities always crop up, how to realistically model them so they are fair around the world? Sports teams travels are pretty well documented in North America but the rest of the world would be a challenge, and how do you make it different enough from the package system to make it interesting.

IMO it's interesting if it were basically a re-skinned package system because it's giving some concrete tasking for pilots who want to use their aircraft for pax or packages or both and make just a little more cash but have a very specific destination. I think you could say that groups of passengers might be mixed in with a general flight. Say a company group took advantage of bulk pricing to fly from an airport near their HQ down to Miami to all jump on a cruise ship together. They might not want to pay so much that they would have the aircraft all to themselves but 20 of them might be traveling together under a group rate on a commercial flight.

I've got an A340-600 right now at KDFW. I don't have a specific destination in mind but I use the priority package availability to guide my journey. It's fun not knowing where the next flight might take you but having to base your plans around whatever the background simulation magic decides is the most profitable destination. I know whether I book a charter flight or create a new route to a specific destination I only have to manipulate the ticket price and I can guarantee that the jet will be filled. With some sort of "group flights" list generating random numbers and destinations like the package system the user would have another layer of fun flight planning.

[chrisjk84]

Would it be possible to have a radial graph of sorts that shows which direction the passengers want to go? Say a compass type system that shows 10k want to go NW, 50k want to go SW, 5k want to go N etc...? Give us an idea of what direction would make the most money per ticket?

Maybe over time the 5k that want to go N they are willing to pay more to get a bigger chance of a flight going that direction?

IDK just throwing out something LOL

[joefremont]

Would it be possible to have a radial graph of sorts that shows which direction the passengers want to go? Say a compass type system that shows 10k want to go NW, 50k want to go SW, 5k want to go N etc...? Give us an idea of what direction would make the most money per ticket?

Without major changes that is not possible, while the system recalculates the destination weights when you book a flight and the flight you just booked changes the result