Need to fix the income system ASAP.

[CAPFlyer]

CJK brings up another point about your x7 multiplier.

I can fly once a day, sometimes more, because I am in University and having the PC on isnt that hard to do in tghe background. Working people, will probably only fly on the Weekend. How does having a low multiplier benefit them? Especially if they want a nice big airline?

Not everyone flies every day. Keep that in mind.

Okay... I never said once a day. If you fly one day worth of flights per week (so for my airline, each airplane gets 3 flights a week put on it) then with a multiplier of 7, GMC makes a week's worth of income. I don't see how that's unreasonable to ask for a pilot to fly that number flights a week (or less on those long-haul flights). I mean, remember, unless you're on a long-haul, the most you can fly a crew for a day is 8 hours. So, split that up into a week, that means that they only need to sit down behind the computer for 2 or 3 hours at a time, 2 or 3 times a week and you've made most of the flights that would have been made if you'd been flying the route every day all week. That's the point of the multiplier, it's to make up for the flights that you didn't fly.

Or, if you want to only make them fly 1 day's schedule a month, set the multiplier to 30. Then by that one pilot flying his plane for that one scheduled run, you make a month's worth of income.

[cjk2448]

Then, add to that that my airplane crashed into an invisible building, and suddenly I've got 2 bad flights and my reputation went to 26 (how is it that your rep can get that bad that fast anyway? That's setting a really high bar considering that there are too many idiots who fly on this simulator... )

Funny, most pilots reputation after crashing into a building go to hell, that is if they don't kill themselfs in the process. Oh, and I have had 2 flights myself with NO FREAKIN PASSENGERS TOO and my rep is up at 97%. Come to think of it, if you have no passengers then your reputation shouldn't do anything unless you can't fly.

So my god stop bring this up its going NOWHERE - all you are doing is repeating your side and Justin is repeating his side.

[CAPFlyer]

Then, add to that that my airplane crashed into an invisible building, and suddenly I've got 2 bad flights and my reputation went to 26 (how is it that your rep can get that bad that fast anyway? That's setting a really high bar considering that there are too many idiots who fly on this simulator... )

Funny, most pilots reputation after crashing into a building go to hell, that is if they don't kill themselfs in the process. Oh, and I have had 2 flights myself with NO FREAKIN PASSENGERS TOO and my rep is up at 97%. Come to think of it, if you have no passengers then your reputation shouldn't do anything unless you can't fly.

So my god stop bring this up its going NOWHERE - all you are doing is repeating your side and Justin is repeating his side.

I wasn't saying the 0 passenger thing affected my rep, only my funds which wasn't made any better by the fact that then I get hit with the big hit for buying 2200lbs of fuel.

Also, the "invisible building" that I hit, I was doing all of 2 MPH as I was taxiing in. Actually, the first building that I hit was when the sim loaded because the addon scenery I added didn't delete the default buildings (which I wasn't aware of since I usually loaded at a different parking spot) and because I'd already started FlyNET, I had no control over getting the crash and thus loosing the money and reputation.

[cjk2448]

A bit of a problem there - if I make 7 days worth of income in one flight and fly 52 days out of the year and adveraged 15,000 a flight (that is a 3hr flight with 260 passengers in a Boeing 757-300) and I made 52 flights a year I would make a wopping 5,460,000 dollars. My god I CAN BY 4 CESSNAS NOW!!!!

See how that wouldn't work?

[CAPFlyer]

No, I don't. That's because again you're off.

A 757 flying for 3 hours a day is flying at less than 50% utilization.

Now, that same 757 flying for 6 hours a day is operating at 75% utilization, thus your profit PER AIRCARFT would be ~ $11 million. That's a REALISTIC value.

Now, you incorporate the other parts of from my top post, and suddenly, you can buy 3 or 4 more 757s with that $11 million and make $11 million from each of them.

What you guys keep leaving out is that you're trying to buy a plane out of pocket. That is not something that is a normal occurence in the real world. Leasing and buying on loan (just like you do with a car) is. Thus, if you continue with leasing and add the ability to get a loan, suddenly you now have the ability to grow your fleet, but yet not be making a 70% profit on each flight.

[cmdrnmartin]

Your example of 32 flights is ok, but what if you want a bigger, more expensive aircraft. Say double the price? 64 flights. God forbid you want an 8 million dollar aircraft, but have fun flying those 128 flights!

Loans have to be payed back. Looks like 128 flights again. Oh, and with interest of 10%! So even more flights depending upon how long it takes you to pay it back.

I've flown 114 flights so far. So I still wouldnt have payed off that loan, or been able to buy that new plane yet. Darn. That sucks. And If i flew every weekend, once a day, well, thats just about a years worth of flights, in fact, its more than a year of my life, and I havnt bought one new plane! Assuming a flight a day, well, thats a third of a year to get a plane. FlYnet WILL crash and burn if the multiplyer is set that low.

The reputation thing is harsh, but it teaches people to not crash, as there are consequences. You want real life? How many people flew after 9/11? The people that had too, other people were scared. It took a lot of image cleaning to get air travel back to where it is today.

I have proved to you that OAS, flying the identical plane as you did, turned in a profit equal to 30% of the plane they were flying at the time. Everyone reading this can see it.

What are those 55% costs that are left out? Maintenance? Oh, we already have that! Catering, yep got that too. Airport taxes and fees? Nope, but then youd be even farther in the hole with additional things to pay, so why even bother continuing?

Pilots are payed in FLYnet based upon the flights they fly. Why? Because some pilots will fly only a flight a month, others 30. No way that they should make the same. Konny's kept it simple, and thats the way it should be.

So
1) The multiplier needs to stay high. 500 at least.
2) Leases are used by airlines allready. Loans would be good, but only a startup really needs them.
3)I agree, I want a demand system too. Look at my post about codesharing and why I want Alliances to equal increased pax loads.
4) Operating costs, without fuel, will only dig into your profit potential more. To include fuel as an operating cost based upon time is dumb. the current payment for fuel loaded system works fine, for people who know what they're doing. And engine inspections etc? I pay 500 000 dollars after every airbus flight, in maintenance costs. Over a month thats 15 million dollars for 30 flights. I fly roughly twice a day. I already pay 30 million in maintenance.

Seat Mile costs tell you nothing. Theyre all optimized, dont take into account weather, and airlines lie or "soften" facts to make they're planes look like the greatest thing since triple slotted flaps.

Leases: Lease your aircraft if you want to. Its your choice.

Then, add to that that my airplane crashed into an invisible building, and suddenly I've got 2 bad flights and my reputation went to 26 (how is it that your rep can get that bad that fast anyway? That's setting a really high bar considering that there are too many idiots who fly on this simulator... Smile )

Yet us idiots manage to make money. Whereas you don't. Complain about the crash reputation thing. I know I have already. I want student pilots to not affect the rep of my airline specifically because it will hurt my bottom line tremendously. I do go-arounds if im iffy about a crosswind landing,and I check my MLW all the time, to make sure my gear wont snap when I set her down. But don't say the economy on FLYnet doesnt work, just because you are suffering It's whining of the worst kind.

[CAPFlyer]

But then again, everyone is still only assuming a single pilot per airline. I'll give 2 examples, one with a 30x multiplier and one with a 7x multiplier

30x Multiplier -

Let's say I have 5 pilots. They each fly 8 hours a month. That means that I get a total of 40 hours of flying a month. Each pilot averages $7500 per hour of flight in profit ($15000 / 3 from above). Multiply $7500 by 40 and you get $300,000. Multiply that by 30 (the multiplier since they each only flew for one day) and you get $9,000,000. Multiply that by 12, and you get $108,000,000 per year.

7x Multiplier -

I have the same 5 pilots. But now they fly 8 hours a week. That means that I get 40 hours a week or 160 hours a month. Each pilot still averages $7500 per month in profit. Take that $7500 and multiply it by 40. Again you get $300,000, bu this time it's per week. Multiply that $300,000 by 7 (for 7 days in the week) and you get $2,100,000 per week. Multiply that by 52 (weeks in the year), and guess what... you get $109,200,000 per year in profit. So theoretically, if your pilots fly 8 hours a week with a multiplier of 7, you can actually make $1.2 million more than if they only flew 8 hours a month and multiplied it by 30.

Now, take that number and double it or even triple it. Any half-decent VA should be able to keep 15 active pilots at any given time. With that 30x multiplier, that means you could be making $324 million a year in pure profit.

[cjk2448]

When you find 5 pilots that will fly 8 hours a week let me know - I want my 150mil plane before I turn 23 (im 21)

[cmdrnmartin]

I've reread this entire thread.

Here are my conclusions.

Your Airlines Reputation is too low. Fix it.
You pay your pilots too much.
You are complaining because you can't make a profit, but you are blaming FLYnets economy.
You are the only one who blames a loss on a flight on the economic model.
I have proven that your losses are a direct result of your crash, not of FLYnets economy.
I have proven that your Aircraft can make money, consistently.
I have proven that a longer flight on a large aircraft makes less than a shorter flight, and that flying further doesnt mean higher earnings.
I have proven that aircraft size and resultant profit scale accordingly.
I have proven that an operating cost algorithm is stupid, since maintenance on your planes is already a part of FlyNet.
I have shown that I pay a minimum of 30 million dollars in maintenance each month.
I have proven that a lack of multiplier will not make you magically earn money.
I have shown that all the multiplier does is speed up progress.
I am supported by the other FLYnet members, all of whom do not have a problem with the multiplier.
You have not considered that some people can only fly a few times a month, I have.
You have refused to be rational.
The C208 has 14 seats, not 8.

I am closing this topic, because as a person, I want to enlighten you, but as a Moderator I know I have to protect the boards from flaming and personal attacks, which this thread is very quickly nearing. If you want to ask about your crash and rep, contact Konny. If you want to put up an idea for crashes, reputation, stuff like that, ok. But this entire thread is about you whining over an issue that doesn't exist. It doesn't belong in Bugs and Problems, it should have been a PM to Konny. My first post to you was supportive, but you continued to deny deny deny, and as a result, everyone who reads this will see where the real problem lay.

I see Im not the only person with whom youve refused to reason

This post is closed. I apologize to all FLYNet members that I let myself be drawn into this, and I'll try to recognize a problem before it extends to this degree sooner.